You Asked, The Gymternet Answered

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It’s time for the 90th edition of You Asked, The Gymternet Answered! We apologize if we haven’t gotten to your question yet, but we try to answer in the order in which they were received (unless they are super relevant and need to be answered in a timely manner). Something you want to know? Ask us anonymously by going through the contact form at the bottom of the page.

Do you know why Norah Flatley didn’t compete at classics and also won’t compete at nationals even though she attended the last camp?

I heard that Martha Karolyi pulled a few girls aside at the last camp and was straight up about their Olympic chances…like, you qualified to classics and/or nationals and are more than welcome to go through the process, but you will 100% not be on the team. My guess is that given all of Norah’s injuries over the past year, if she was one of the girls who got this spiel, it wouldn’t make sense for her to bust her butt continuing to do elite when there’s no hope. For others who have no hope at making it, being part of the process is still super cool, so if their bodies can handle training at the elite level and they get the shot to maybe get to go to trials, it’s worth it to them even if Martha has said the Olympics won’t happen. Like, Kennedy Baker in 2012 knew she wasn’t going to London, but she had a blast getting to experience that level of competition and going to San Jose. But if you’re so injured, it’s probably in your best interest to just stop training at the elite level so you can get in shape for college, which is what I think Norah’s plan is at the moment. Sad, because she had so much talent and I was really hoping she’d be the dark horse this year, but unfortunately injuries happen. Maybe she’ll try for worlds next year or something, but if not, I hope she’s able to go on and enjoy a successful NCAA career!

Why do gymnasts keep the same beam routines forever? Unlike floor choreography, the beam choreography seems to stay the same for all gymnasts over multiple years.

I imagine the reasoning behind it is that it’s not really expected and because there’s nothing really unique about the majority of beam routines, I don’t think most people would notice if there were changes, to be honest…so it’s better to just keep it the same, especially with so much else to focus on. This becomes kind of a freebie. When I’m watching beam at a meet, with so much else going on I tend to tune out the choreo moments and focus on other routines, whereas with floor I actually pay attention to the routines as a whole because they tend to be more unique and interesting. Beam doesn’t give very many options for choreography, which is why most of it is silly arm-waving, and why most routines are basically indistinguishable from one another, aside from those who just have better presentation skills and make arm waving look like art.

What do you think about Giulia Steingruber only having three tumbling passes in her new floor routine?

She’s actually planning on having four by Rio, with a full-twisting double layout, double double, double layout, and tucked full-in. She’s been alternating between the double double and double layout, but I think she plans on having both in her Rio routine to boost her difficulty. Still, even with only three passes, she’s managing to reach around a 6.4 d-score, so I don’t think it’s really an issue either way and it’s nice that her ‘backup’ routine is more difficult than most real routines.

What are the grips some gymnasts wear on their hands when they vault?

I think you might be talking about wrist guards…they’re not really grips but are used rather for those who have problems with their wrists when their hands hit the table at that angle. Like, from personal experience, I have problems with a pinched nerve in my forearm that makes my wrist a mess so when I do trampoline, I have to wear a brace on my right wrist for when I do things like seat drops where I’m putting a lot of pressure on my hands when they’re flexed at a 90 degree angle. If I don’t brace my wrists, I compress the nerve even more, which causes a ton of pain.

For non-gymnasts, a normal range of motion for wrist extension is 70 degrees, but gymnasts need to have 90 degree extension when tumbling and on vault. When the hands hit the vault flexed at a 90 degree angle, the pressure is SO incredibly intense because they’re hurling their bodies into the table at a high speed. Wrist strength and flexibility is incredibly important, though that can take a long time to build up if there are underlying injuries (like I have with my pinched nerve), so typically those with these sorts of injuries rely on wrist guards as a kind of secondary support until they can get back to full strength and reach 90 degree extension.

How do alternates work at the Olympics? How late can a coach decide to bring in an alternate?

For the Olympics, the alternate decision deadline is the day of opening ceremonies. At most FIG events, federations get the chance to evaluate everyone there up through podium training, including the alternate, though at the Olympic Games the alternates have to train separately from the team so if someone’s not performing up to par on the team, the heads of the teams need to have some sort of report coming from wherever the alternates are training so they’ll know if they should swap or not. Most of the times, teams are decided and there are no changes, but I know in 2012 the U.S. team came very close to having to bring in an alternate after McKayla Maroney was having issues with injuries and was possibly going to be unable to compete…but they were able to see her get through podium training and ultimately decided it wasn’t worth pulling her. At most meets, the federation can make changes throughout the meet if needed due to injury or whatever, but at the Olympics, the team you go in with is the team you’re “stuck with” so to say. If you have a team of five during qualifications, and then one gets injured, you are left with only those four going into team finals, which is super risky and why most teams go with girls who train all four events, so all events are covered in case of an emergency.

Have there been any successful elites who never got invited to the developmental camp system?

It’s hard to say because the developmental system is pretty new and we don’t always get lists of everyone there. I’m sure there are because sometimes the girls who end up being talented senior elites aren’t really the same girls who stand out at the developmental level. And then in terms of the TOPs program, which is where the developmental program kind of pulls from in a sense, some gyms don’t participate there and so wouldn’t get that recognition that would get them invited to developmental camps. Like, I’m pretty sure GAGE doesn’t do the TOPs program and they’ve had Olympians or Olympic alternates at the past three Games. Basically, even if you’re putting yourself in a place to impress the national team staff when you’re nine or ten, it doesn’t mean you’re going to be successful as a senior. The developmental programs help kids with promise but who might not be going in the right direction (kind of like Ragan Smith when she first got to that level), but if you don’t go through the developmental system, you can still stand out at the elite level.

Are Nastia Liukin and Shawn Johnson working on something together? They keep tagging each other on social media but I didn’t think they were close friends.

I don’t think they’re working on anything directly together but I know the two will both be working on the broadcasting side of things this summer and will probably be at many of the same events. They also invited each other to their weddings and hung out when Shawn was in NYC, so it seems they’ve gotten closer now that they’re adults.

Now that Simone Biles has a Cheng, is she likely to use that vault in the team final or will she stay with the Amanar, even though the Cheng has the higher start value?

I think she’ll most likely stick with the Amanar since it’s more consistent and has been for five years now. The Cheng, while great, isn’t as clean just yet and could be too much of a risk in a team final where nerves are all over the place. Mentally, it’s easier to do what you’re used to in that situation, and then you can save the risks for event finals. I could see them maybe opting for the Cheng if she outscores her Amanar in qualifications, but I think the two extra tenths in difficulty aren’t really worth the peace of mind that comes with doing a vault you’re more familiar with.

What was going on with Rachel Gowey’s balance beam at classics? It looks like she got over 1.5 points in deductions on her e-score but I don’t know where they came from.

Basically lots of little things added up. An 8.45 actually isn’t too bad for a beam e-score, and is pretty much realistic considering how many routines at classics were overscored. Off-hand, she had some noticeable foot form issues as well as low chest positions throughout, her shoulders were hunched forward, her sheep jump wasn’t clean at all, and she hopped on the dismount…so even while there weren’t really any mistakes, these little form issues on most skills definitely add up. I do think compared to other routines it was quite low, but it’s a realistic e-score internationally.

What are your thoughts on Elena Eremina? I feel like she could be Russia’s Next Big Thing.

It’s funny, because for the three top Russians who went to Euros, I think she’s the weakest of the bunch. I think Anastasia Ilyankova and Ulyana Perebinosova are far stronger, and historically, Elena has been the least consistent of the three, so I found it funny that she ended up winning the Euros title after Ulyana didn’t qualify due to getting a zero on vault while Anastasia made it to finals but had a meltdown on beam. I like Elena, and I think she has a lot of promise, though I think the other two right now are generally the stronger of the three and I tend to prefer their gymnastics. But it’s great that they have three at the junior level who could all be the “next big thing” as they become seniors next year. All need a little fine-tuning and some upgrades but I like that they are pretty much on par with the U.S. juniors, which could make for some great competition at worlds next year.

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Article by Lauren Hopkins

11 thoughts on “You Asked, The Gymternet Answered

    • Just that she showed a lot of promise at age 9-10 and the national team staff made sure she followed the right path to a successful elite career, suggested a gym change because her old gym didn’t have a lot of new/up-to-date equipment, etc.

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  1. What do you think Bailey’s honest chance is at Rio? She has had injuries like Norah, but she’s still pushing hard? Marta basically said in an interview that someone who hasn’t competed in 2016 has no chance….but maybe Bailey is a dark horse? Also, do you think Laurie and Regan are basically fighting for the same spot? and maybe Maggie too?

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  2. What is the alternate scenario if a gymnast is injured either during qualifications or in training between QF and TF? Do teams have to work with 4 athletes or can an alternate step in?

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    • If it happens in the middle of qualifications, they have to keep going with the four they have on the team, which is why it’s so important that they have backups for each lineup (and why people are against someone like Ashton Locklear, who doesn’t train two events, making the team). They can bring in an alternate between qualifications and team finals at worlds and I think the same goes for the Olympics, but if it happens in the middle of the competition, there is no swapping in allowed.

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      • Ashton is the reason I asked the question. If two people get injured on the floor, that would mean USA has to count 0’s on vault and or floor.

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        • Yup…in 2012, when I spoke to Martha Karolyi, she basically straight up said that she wouldn’t even consider girls who didn’t train all four events, which is why I think she was so against Alicia Sacramone on the team. It’s fine on a six-member team, but with only five on the team, you’re kind of screwed if someone gets injured and your option to step in doesn’t even train one of the events needed. She seems to really like Ashton’s bars and they could very well win an Olympic medal, but it’s just so risky, I would be surprised to see her or another true specialist make the team.

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  3. But how does it make sense for Martha to say something like that to someone like Norah? Say, Norah (or whoever) showed up at Nationals and Trials so prepared that she actually scored the highest on both beam and bars on all four competition days, looking very confident and making no errors etc. If everyone says the right timing matters so much in the Olympic year, i.e. what matters is to be peaking at the exact right moment, then surely someone like that could well be considered over someone who scores lower but has competed earlier in the year? I feel like in the case of Norah that scenario isn’t actually so ridiculously far-fetched either, given how much promise she showed in the past (though of course I have no idea how much her injuries have limited her training – which Martha, on the other hand, likely does know – so I guess my question is, was it just in this specific case that it made sense to tell Norah it 100% wasn’t going to happen, or would Martha rule out such a scenario in principle?).

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    • Okay, Norah goes and hits her routine twice in a row. That’s only two performances to judge her on. Say she goes to the Olympics and falls. Martha wants someone prepared and with experience. Norah hasn’t even competed since Jesolo 2015 so it would be a HUGE risk. Martha told her especially because she was coming back after injury and didn’t want to push her if she obviously wasn’t going to make the team in her mind.

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      • Yeah…basically even if she killed it at nationals and trials on beam, there’s no way Martha would take someone with no international experience as a senior…missing the first half of this year was detrimental and Martha has even said those who didn’t compete at Pac Rims, American Cup, or Jesolo likely wouldn’t even be considered for the team. I think it’s smart to let Norah and anyone else reaching for the Games to know this in advance, because they can make the decision for themselves whether or not they should keep going. It would really suck if Norah pushed herself to her breaking point for an impossible goal, so I’m glad Martha gave her the option to bow out early.

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      • OK, thanks – that makes sense about it being specifically after her injury and not wanting to push her in that situation. And of course it also makes sense to want someone proven and reliable for the Olympics… I just thought it would be odd if experience AUTOMATICALLY trumped even a very high score – and so much so that Marta wouldn’t even need/want to see all potential routines anymore.. But yeah, at the end of the day I’m also glad to see a system in place where the gymnasts are somewhat protected from pushing against their health too much for even just a slim chance.

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