You Asked, The Gymternet Answered

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It’s time for the 78th edition of You Asked, The Gymternet Answered! We apologize if we haven’t gotten to your question yet, but we try to answer in the order in which they were received (unless they are super relevant and need to be answered in a timely manner). Something you want to know? Ask us anonymously by going through the contact form at the bottom of the page.

Have Laurent and Cecile Landi taken over WOGA? Are Evgeny Marchenko and Valeri Liukin in any type of role with the gym?

Valeri Liukin is the founder and while he is no longer really coaching through his gym, he is still heavily involved as an owner on the business side of things. Yevgeny Marchenko continues to coach (and most recently coached Ava Verdeflor at the international level for the Philippines), though isn’t as involved in the team aspect the way Laurent and Cecile are. They basically run the show when it comes to the older level 10s and elites, but the majority of the younger ones are with Natalya Marakova, Megan Haught, Natasha Boyarskaya, Janelle McDonald, and Tatyana Shadenko. Sloane Blakely, one of their younger ones attempting elite, is with Tatyana, Irina Alexeeva, who just qualified to junior elite, is with Natalya and Megan, Rachel Baumann is with Natasha and Janelle, etc. Laurent and Cecile are the faces of the current senior elites so in that sense they’ve “taken over” from Valeri so he could focus on the business and on his role as developmental leader for the national program, but they haven’t “taken over” WOGA and are just one of many coaching teams there right now.

Is there a reason it took the gymnasts so long to discover the gainer layout dismount? I mean, it was first done in 2008 and it was obviously the easiest D dismount with the bonus of being really easy to stick, but only in 2015 did multiple gymnasts begin to use it to fulfill the dismount requirement. Many gymnasts were still competing C dismounts earlier in the quad before discovering this.

The gainer layout off the end of the beam isn’t actually as easy as it looks! I know I talked to one gymnast last year who kept a C dismount off beam because she feared doing a gainer layout due to the counter-rotation. She said she felt like she was going to smash her feet on the back right before the landing whenever she attempted one and she actually felt like a 2.5 was much easier for her, which is what she was upgrading to rather than putting in the “easy” gainer layout. Generally, yes, it’s the “easiest” D beam dismount but not for everyone, and if you’re working skill progressions from easier skills up to their more difficult variations, just casually throwing a gainer layout isn’t going to happen. It would involve learning a new skill, and that’s not worth it to gymnasts who maybe began with a 1.5 and worked up to a double full and are trying to make a 2.5 their D dismount goal. Of course, with the recent trend in popularity for these skills, it’s definitely likely that one gymnast saw someone do it and was like “oh I’m good at gainer skills, this makes my life so much easier!” and it semi-blew up from there, but even now there are still plenty of gymnasts with C dismounts so it’s not necessarily an easy upgrade for everyone.

After worlds, what do you think Aly Raisman needs to do to win back Martha Karolyi’s trust in time for the Olympics? Or has she already done that by performing well in the team final?

I don’t think she needs to “win back her trust” really at all. I think she had a bad day, as gymnasts tend to do on occasion, and if anything she came back in team finals and proved there that her qualifications day was just a nervous fluke. I think Martha Karolyi fully trusts her, and really while she made a few nervous mistakes, her only major error was a fall on bars, which has never been her most consistent event and would never be an event on which Karolyi would rely on her in team finals. I think because we’re so used to seeing Aly as the rock of the team who was the most dependable gymnast throughout the last quad, seeing her make human mistakes that everyone on her team has made at one point or another was just jarring and so people are taking it to the extreme.

Gabby Douglas had a fall on beam, one of the events she IS eventually expected to contribute on in a team situation, but she’s remembered for her all-around silver and not for her qualifications errors because she got that chance to redeem herself. If that’s the case, then Aly also definitely redeemed herself in the team final. If anything her focus to put her back as a frontrunner for Rio needs to be on figuring out a beam routine that works for her and isn’t subject to so many d-score downgrades. Clearly the millions of connections aren’t working in the way they hoped, but how is she supposed to know that when the judges in the U.S. are way more lenient? Hopefully the U.S. judges this year are as strict as their international counterparts will be in Rio.

What are some tips you can give an NCAA fantasy gym newbie?

Sorry, this might be a little outdated, but usually when I played fantasy gym back in the day I would focus on my gymnasts who maybe weren’t as explosive in terms of high scores but who performed consistently week in and week out. The last time I played was Bridget Sloan’s freshman season, and my team came in second overall at the end of everything. Now, I happened to have Bridget, which really helped me out, not gonna lie. But I also had a ton of gymnasts who were rockstar all-arounders for smaller programs. By stacking my team with all-arounders who performed on all four events basically no matter what – gymnasts now like Sidney Dukes, Shani Remme, Grace Williams, Amanda Wellick, Caitlin Atkinson – I pretty much never had to play a guessing game with lineups or be like “oh no, I’m short on vault!”

At this point, this is probably everyone’s strategy, so I’m sure it’s more difficult to stack your team with everyone you want when you’re drafting and you have to throw in a few wild cards who might be less consistent or not in as many lineups, but when I came second it’s the strategy I used and it clearly worked. I actually played a version of fantasy NCAA gym back in 2011 before its current incarnation, I believe hosted by Folgers Gymnastics, and I was more starstruck with my options then and went with, like, superstar freshmen like Macko Caquatto who was coming in with an injury but I just had to have her because elite!!! But that was me just being dumb.

Other tips…many people use spreadsheets to track not only what scores their gymnasts are getting, but how often they’re in lineups. Like, Erin Macadaeg on paper looks like an amazing floor option because she got a 9.95 but she has only competed floor once all season so it’s safer to go with someone who consistently gets 9.8s than it is to put her on your floor lineup and hope for the best. I’d also steer away from freshmen who are amazing one week and fall the next…freshmen are a little more nervous when it comes to competing, so until they get into a groove with hitting each week, even if they’re only hitting 9.8s, I’d trust them more than gymnasts like Sarah Finnegan or Olivia Karas, who will get a 9.95 one week and a 9.2 the next because they haven’t quite reached her stride and that might not happen this year. In general, I would stay away from freshmen in my initial draft and then maybe try to trade for a couple as the season goes on and I see how they do.

Is Aliya Mustafina still training with Sergei Starkin?

Yes, she is still training with Starkin and is expected to return to competition at the Russian Championships this spring. That will be her first step back to getting on track to being a top gymnast once again, which has been a bit of a challenge over the past several months as she was both dealing with a nagging injury as well as not really feeling motivated to train. Starkin reportedly has been working with the Russian Olympic Committee to ensure that Aliya has medical, nutritional, and psychological services available to her because they think she can physically still compete at a very high level…but now it’s all about getting her to actually commit to that.

What skill did Jana Bieger perform on beam where she would do a front flip to her shin?

I believe most people referred to it as a kneeling front somi…she would actually start off on one knee and flip forward to land on that same knee, and she did it backwards as well, from a standing position down to one knee.

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What is the wildcard the IOC can use to qualify an athlete to the Olympics? Can they give it to whomever they want?

The wildcard spot is actually referred to as the tripartite spot. Basically, the Olympic Tripartite Commission (comprised of members of the International Olympic Committee, the Association of National Olympic Committees, and the FIG) is allowed to name one gymnast of their choosing to an Olympic berth. However, it can’t be just anyone…only countries that have qualified six or fewer athletes to the last two Olympic Games are eligible, and they have to apply to be considered. Countries who fit this description with gymnasts at worlds last year include Bolivia, the Cayman Islands, Malta, and Monaco, and among these the gymnast with the best finish at worlds was Diana Vasquez of Bolivia, who finished 142nd with a score of 47.399. If anything, it’ll probably go to her assuming they apply for the opportunity…the next best down the line was Malta’s Suzanne Buttigieg with a 40.999 all-around so Vasquez is the most legitimate option.

Can a back spin on floor or beam count for the full turn composition requirement? Does anyone utilize that strategy?

No, it can’t. A full turn has to be done on one foot to fulfill the requirement. You can have a back spin in your routine, and I’ve definitely seen gymnasts do them, but it would be more of a dance or artistry choice, not something that would count as an actual turn. To clear up any confusion, you can do a back spin and get credit for it (it’s a C element on beam) but while it could count as one of your eight skills in your start value, you can’t count it as the required full turn and would need to throw in a simple pirouette or something, otherwise you’d lose 0.5 from your CR.

You wrote some time ago that you felt Rachel Gowey’s time had come and gone. Do you still feel that way? She posted some upgrade videos recently. Don’t you think she has a shot at the Olympics?

I do think she’s still in the running but I also agree with what I’ve said before, that her peak probably would have been in 2014 had she not been injured that year. Upgrade videos are great, but you should take them with a grain of salt until you see those upgrades as part of full routines. Nastia Liukin in 2012 is the best example of why you shouldn’t trust skills on their own. I remember seeing her bars dismount at podium training for nationals and being absolutely floored with how good it looked, not even considering that she was doing the dismount entirely separately from the rest of her routine. We all know how that panned out.

I think Rachel is incredibly talented but I think it’s also going to be challenging to find a spot on an Olympic team when her only other major international experience was Pan Ams, where she fully gave up on herself in beam finals, turning one fall into a series of errors. Falls happen, but you need to fight back from them, and she didn’t. If she comes in with a 7.0 bars and beam this summer and hits them excellently each time, then sure, she’d win my trust back but at this point she doesn’t have a top three routine in the country on either event, she’s not the most consistent on either event, and she lacks the experience that many others have. No matter how much I enjoy her as a gymnast, or how good her upgrades are, she’s certainly nowhere near frontrunner status for me unless she shows some major improvements in the lead-up to nationals and trials.

What deduction does a gymnast get if she falls on the beam (but not off the beam) or touches the beam with her hand in order to not fall?

If a gymnast falls on the beam, it’s still a point, and if she falls onto her hands and puts her weight on her hands to avoid falling off, it’s a point as well. But if she just brushes against the apparatus – like if she’s wobbling and her hands touch the beam but she doesn’t grab on – it’s only three tenths.

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Article by Lauren Hopkins

5 thoughts on “You Asked, The Gymternet Answered

  1. About your last question, I remember reading somewhere on the CoP that support on the apparatus to avoid falling is 0.5 deduction. Going into a handstand or something on beam or just hang on high bar would count as that, right? Not a full point.

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    • I think a hang on high bar would be 0.5 but I’m pretty sure a handstand on beam would be 0.3…I was just looking in the COP and didn’t see any 0.5 fall deductions for beam, just the full point and 0.3.

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      • 0.5 gets deducted for grasping the beam to avoid a fall, like how Simone did in Glasgow.

        But for going to handstand on beam to support yourself like Nastia did in ’06 would count as a fall and lose a full point. The code describes it as “support on mat/apparatus with 1 or 2 hands”

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      • Why wasn’t Simone deducted a full point in the AA then? Or is it possible she was, and would have had a 9.1 E score if she hadn’t fallen on the beam? Do we have a way of knowing this for sure? Thanks!

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  2. Everybody knows that USAG has depth bla bla bla.
    Should they create somekind of “division” for B teams to attend more world cup and other international events ? In order to those girls have experience and also delight fans/viewers like us?

    I would really enjoy seeing those not so top 5 girls in those meets…

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