You Asked, The Gymternet Answered

If I have to remember this so do you

It’s time for the 331st edition of You Asked, The Gymternet Answered!

We apologize if we haven’t gotten to your question yet, but we try to answer in the order in which they were received (unless they are super relevant and need to be answered in a timely manner).

Something you want to know? Ask us anonymously by going through the contact form at the bottom of the page.

What competition had you on the edge of your seat most when you watched it for the first time?

I’ve had a lot of competitions where I’ve felt excited about the outcome, but the first one that really had me on the edge of my seat was the men’s team final in 2018. I think it’s because I was there, which was a very different feeling from watching online? Like, the last women’s team final I can remember getting really excited about was the worlds final in 2010, but because I was watching online in my dorm room at a ridiculously early hour, I was just kind of like…this is exciting, it’s so close, both teams are so good, but I’m just not feeling it? Same in 2011 when the tables turned and it was the U.S. coming out on top. But I honestly thought I was going to explode watching the men in 2018…and seeing the Russians get so close but miss out by the narrowest of margins, especially sitting about 20 feet from the high bar where Artur Dalaloyan was curled up in a ball on the floor hugging the side of the podium? I was doing a live blog but could barely type, I was shaking and sweating and about to cry. I’ve never been that stressed in my life, hahaha. SO GOOD. I’ve never felt that way about a WAG competition, but I can’t imagine what people felt like in the arena in 1984 watching Mary Lou Retton and Ecaterina Szabo going head-to-head, or Tatiana Gutsu and Shannon Miller in 1992…I probably would have passed out. Or passed away.

Georgia once was a powerhouse team. Now, the team barely gets any elite recruits. Why is this? Is there a chance UGA is recruiting Sophia Butler or Shilese Jones? Any other elites?

I think with all of the coaching changes in the wake of Suzanne Yoculan retiring, it became difficult for them to attract a lot of recruits, especially after Jay Clark was then pretty quickly fired after taking over. Several of his recruits jumped ship, including Lexie Priessman, so I think gymnasts became wary of how things were being handled within the athletic department there and without knowing what to expect or wondering if they’d even have the same coach who recruited them by the time they showed up, it just made sense for them to look elsewhere. Now that Courtney Kupets is there, I’m hoping they’re able to become a more attractive program once again…getting Victoria Nguyen was a huge win for the team, and they have a few good elites and level 10s in the coming years…no superstars yet, but that’s hard in general because there are only a handful of ‘superstars’ anyway, and they tend to all end up at the same very top programs. I think if Georgia continues to show faith in Courtney as a coach, and if the team continues to rise in the standings, they can definitely get back on track and start recruiting the very top athletes again. By the way, Sophia and Shilese are both committed to Florida. 🙂

I feel like 90% of the Beijing team was injured at some point. Why didn’t Martha Karolyi pick up an alternate?

The alternates didn’t have visas, so they basically got stuck in Japan and weren’t available to be swapped in. I think there’s also the issue that most of the injuries happened after the point where alternates could be swapped in (if I remember correctly, for the Olympics they have to officially make the change before the submit their official lineups, which happens about 24 hours before qualifications) so even if they did have an alternate ready to go in Beijing (an actual alternate, not Shayla Worley casually just hanging around for fun), it may have been too late. I also don’t think Martha would have called someone in if someone was available and they had the time…she had said that after 2000, she never wanted to call in an alternate again even if she needed one, and I personally don’t think any of the alternates would have subbed in for anyone who actually competed anyway. I think if it was like, Alicia Sacramone and Nastia Liukin who were injured, then they had some holes to fill, but I didn’t really see them using Bridget Sloan for almost anything on the team if everyone was healthy, so I felt like she was almost a built-in alternate who ended up stepping in for some of Chellsie Memmel and Sam Peszek’s routines in qualifications.

Is there a difference in value or CV between the front whip and the front layout? I feel like most of the front layouts into other front acro skills look more like whips than saltos.

There isn’t really a front whip, at least not in the code. I think most front layouts that are used as connecting elements do end up looking more whippy in that they’re low and long, in that way, you could say that this is a front whip, and that makes sense because it works more like a front handspring to build momentum into the next skill (just like a back handspring or back whip would be used to build momentum into back tumbling). But since you’re asking about values, there’s nothing in the code that would distinguish between a front layout or a front whip since a whip doesn’t exist in that sense. Anything that has a straight body position (no matter if it’s arched or whipped) with forward momentum is going to be considered a ‘layout’ whether it’s high and short or low and long in terms of how it’s rated for credit and CV. 

You talked a little about rebounding twisting passes, causing a lot of injuries/falls. Men do a lot of these too. Do they have the same problems with their ankles and knees, or is it less so because of their build or differences in training?

Men still deal with the same knee and ankle issues that the women deal with, but I think maybe at a slightly lower rate if I had to guess? That’s a guess, of course, but because it’s acceptable for them to land differently, in a lower/deeper kind of position where they can sink into and absorb the mat, I think that helps with limiting some of the injuries that we see with the women trying to land their twists more straight-kneed and lock-legged. This low/deep aesthetic is absolutely hated in women’s gymnastics, and even though it’s safer, it gets deductions in elite. Maggie Nichols and many of the Oklahoma gymnasts land this way in NCAA and even though fans cry all day about how gymnastics needs to be safer for athletes, they also scream about how Oklahoma should be deducted for these landings, and yet the men do them and everyone’s totally chill. Love that double standard! 

That said, there are some men who still have the same problem that some women have with overcompensating with power to get a twist around, and will continue twisting into the ground, which is a wildly different problem that can’t be solved with a low and deep landing. It doesn’t matter how well they absorb the landing into the mat, that’s not going to stop their knees from continuing to twist after their feet have already stopped moving, and then it’s bye bye ACL. This is the problem specifically with rebounding passes…I can’t say for sure if rebouding passes are where men are getting injured most on floor compared to non-rebounding twisting passes or non-twisting passes, but if men are better able to escape knee injuries on these kinds of passes compared to women, it’s probably because they’re focusing more on strengthening the muscles that protect the knee, which lowers the risk of harm to ligaments. Think of Aly Raisman doing nonstop plyometrics as part of her training – she could probably take a bunch of bad rebounding twisting landings and be fine compared to someone who wasn’t doing similar training who has one bad landing and tears an ACL. I feel like this kind of training hasn’t historically been a priority for many women in the sport, but maybe it is more so for men?

How much force can the uneven bars take? Is there a weight limit?

Most don’t have a weight capacity listed but I’ve heard that the majority can safely take up to about 200 lbs of force I believe? Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m pulling this stat from a coach from years ago, so it could be incorrect…I just googled and I can find how much the uneven bars themselves weigh, and how much home gymnastics bars can hold (like the little kid bars), but none of the main brands (AAI, Taishan, Gymnova, Spieth) seem to list a limit for their actual uneven bars sets.

I’ve noticed that sometimes gymnasts end up having to kip cast out of a turn element on bars if they mess it up badly enough. Is there an additional deduction for that on top of what the gymnast gets for the mistake that caused it?

No, gymnasts are allowed to kip cast within their routines, so even if it wasn’t planned, as long as it’s in a spot where a kip cast is okay (so like, not directly out of a Maloney or something), then it’s totally okay and they won’t get a deduction.

How do the age groups work in Hopes? Is it based on actual age in the moment or is it based on birth year like the elite levels? If Hopes had existed earlier and Gabby Douglas, whose birthday is literally the last day of the year, had done it, would she have aged out on the first year even though she would have been 13 for the entire season?

Age groups work the same as they do in elite, so it goes by birth year and not by actual age in the moment. So for 2021, the 10-11 group means any gymnast born in 2010 and 2011, while the 12-13 group means any gymnast born in 2008 and 2009. You’re correct, even though Gabby turned 13 on the 31st in 2008, she wouldn’t have been eligible for Hopes in 2009 and she would have had to do elite, just like she had to compete as a senior in 2011 despite being 15 all year. 

Fun fact, though – Hopes actually did exist in Gabby’s day! They had Hopes 10, Hopes 11-12, and Junior 11-13 divisions back in 2007, and then they changed the system to Hopes and Pre-Elite for a couple of years before adopting the current Hopes system. Gabby did Hopes in 2007 before deciding to compete as a junior at age 12 in 2008, and she was the top Hopes gymnast in the 11-12 division at the U.S. Challenge in 2007! When she was 11, but technically 12 going by birth year. 😉 

What are the possible landing deductions for the roll-out passes men do on floor? It seems to me like deductions couldn’t add up for them the way they do for normal tumbles landed on your feet, since there’s no notion of being able to take multiple hops or steps. If this is true, why don’t men do more of them? Is there a cap on the number of them in a routine?

Well, roll-out tumbling lines are banned now, so that’s why we don’t see them in ANY routines anymore…but when they were allowed, essentially yes, there was a cap to how many there could be in a routine, so that’s why men weren’t just doing full routines with nonstop roll-out passes!

Right now, the MAG code of points has four element groups, and on floor, this includes non-acro, forward acro, backward acro + arabians, and dismounts. In 2016 and earlier, there was a fifth element group, and on floor, this included side acro, which is where arabians fit in, and this group is what also included the roll-out skills. Gymnasts have a cap at how many elements they can use from each group, so that’s where the limit comes in.

Also, you could avoid landing deductions like hops and steps in roll-out skills, but there were still requirements for how the skills were supposed to finish. Gymnasts still had to show precision and control, and not only in order to not receive deductions, but also so they wouldn’t get seriously injured. For most gymnasts, the risk really wasn’t worth the benefit of avoiding a couple of tenths from a landing deduction.

What was Nastia Liukin’s injury in 2008?

I think she was still battling back from her ankle injury in 2008…that was the injury that kept her out of the all-around at world championships in 2006, she had to change her tumbling and dismounts to have forward landings, she got surgery and the recovery took roughly 100 years, it’s why her competitions in 2007 were such a ‘mess’ comparatively (her words, I think she called it her worst year and never spoke very fondly of it, and she said it was because she was so hurt she just couldn’t trained and wasn’t prepared at all), everyone said she was washed up and should become a specialist (at 17!)…she was still coming back from that in 2008 when the competition season started but I think she was good by the time they got to the summer of 2008.

What is a blind change on bars? I always assumed it was the half turn to L grip but I saw Chellsie Memmel call the half turn to reverse grip a blind change in a video. Is there a non-blind change giant with a half turn?

I’ve always called basically any half turn into a front swing a blind change because it’s rare that I’m going to actually be close enough (or paying close enough attention) to see the grip in the heat of the moment, but if you want to get technical, a half turn to reverse grip is a blind change, while a half turn to L-grip is a Higgins roll. They’re both worth the same, so it’s not a huge deal if you just call everything a blind change. But if you do spot a gymnast doing a Higgins roll, definitely shout it out. These are usually most common into front pirouettes skills (as opposed to a blind change, which a gymnast will usually just do into the front giant into a Jaeger)…when I do actually notice a Higgins roll, it’s usually a Chinese gymnast, and it’s usually fabulous. They just emphasize the transition to L-grip with such a flair, it’s almost impossible to miss.

What happened to Ariana Agrapides?

After she was removed from the roster, she tweeted that she’s grateful for all of the memories she made at Iowa, but “due to personal reasons” she decided to return back home to New Jersey. She thanked the coaches and her team for making her time there unforgettable and for providing her with new experiences as she starts the next chapter of her life. Coach Larissa Libby tweeted in response that they’ll miss her and “will be proud of the diligence, loyalty, and maturity [she] demonstrated in making probably one of the toughest decisions of [her] life” and that she knows Ariana “made the right choice for all the right reasons.” A bummer that she didn’t really get much of a college career, but it sounds like she left on great terms and will be missed!

Why do a lot of gymnasts have hyperextended knees? Do they train in some way to have legs like this so their lines look better or is it just a result of injuries?

It happens when people have loose ligaments and tendons around the knee joint, which most people who have it are born with and it can even be something people have naturally throughout their entire body, but it can also be caused when the knees regularly go beyond the appropriate range of motion, usually due to stress on the knee joint ligaments (like…from gymnastics). It does make for nice lines, but it can also make people prone to injury because it shifts your center of balance and puts more pressure on the knee. 

I have hyperextension in my knees, and in ballet, my teachers are constantly correcting me at the barre so that I don’t get injured. When standing straight, instead of your knees being stacked over your ankles, they end up being quite a bit behind your ankles, so your shins are angled back. To fix this, I have to stack my knees over my ankles, which then causes my knees to lock, so then I just have to remember to slightly bend my knees a tiny bit, and my legs look more “normal” and everything in ballet becomes safer…even though I lose my obviously gorgeous lines. I feel like so many people who are in sports like ballet and gymnastics love the line so much, they sacrifice knee health for the aesthetic.

Reality TV contestant Angela Rummans was a level 10 gymnast around 2008 and 2009. She got burned out on gymnastics and switched to pole vaulting. This was her college recruitment video. Was she really a contender for a college team? Which team might have taken her?

She had the skill level you’d see from a gymnast who could be recruited by a D3 school, maybe a D2 depending on the needs (but a D2 back in the time she was being recruited, probably not a D2 today), and definitely not D1. She’d probably be a pretty solid D3 gymnast on vault and bars, maybe floor too.

Is the bonus for a whip directly into another tumbling skill always the same? What bonus would a whip + double double get?

A whip into almost everything is the same. An A+D direct connection is worth 0.1, and then they up that to 0.2 for an A+E direct, but connect a whip to anything higher than an E and you’re still gonna get just the 0.2. Since a double double is so far beyond an E, rated an H, I’d guess this would be the kind of scenario where a gymnast could maybe ask the FIG if they could petition for a bit more CV? Honestly it’s silly that there’s an entire tenth of CV difference between D and E and then absolutely nothing beyond that so it wouldn’t hurt to ask.

Is it true that the perfect handstand requirement for pirouetting skills on bars is relaxed if the gymnast goes directly into another skill? If that’s true, is a 30- or 45-degree late turn deducted or deducted less than normal?

It’s not like, a black-and-white code rule, but I do think judges are more relaxed with late handstands in pirouettes that connect than they are with solo pirouette handstands…it probably depends on the judge (or, ahem, on the gymnast), but I’d say most are going to be less rigid if they see a full pirouette finishing 30 degrees late going right to Tkachev than if they just saw a full pirouette on its own. I think the general sense is that if a gymnast is doing one skill and focusing on the one skill, she should have more control over her movement, and there is no reason to be late if that’s all she’s focusing on, but if she’s doing a full pirouette and focusing during that pirouette on building momentum into the next skill, they might give her the benefit of the doubt. If they were going to initially take three tenths, instead they’ll just take one, and if they were going to take one, they just won’t take any. Again, super subjective, and not a written rule, but definitely one of those unspoken things that happens with many judges, especially if they know a gymnast would otherwise finish in handstand if not connecting the skills.

Every year there’s a competition that decides who is the best all-arounder in the world, but who has been the best one, let’s say from the new code of 2006 until now, in your opinion? Apart from results I mean. Even one that was great on all four apparatus, even if she didn’t have a stunning D score to go on the podium.

I mean…Simone Biles. Scores aside, difficulty aside, she is literally the best gymnast who has ever lived?! I think if you stripped every gymnast’s difficulty away and just had them doing more simple routines, she would still stand out as one of the best because she has basically everything a gymnast should have, on every apparatus. No, maybe not the most incredible bars swing, but she still ticks basically every box in terms of form and technique, and I think more than any other gymnast between 2006 and the present day, she encapsulates perfectly what it means to be a complete all-arounder.

Mélanie De Jesus Dos Santos also comes to mind. I think behind Simone, she’s one of the only gymnasts who really “has it all”…and lately I’ve been thinking the same about Angelina Melnikova as well. I was thinking about the Russians, and was obviously considering Aliya Mustafina because she’s won medals on every apparatus which is so rare, obviously that means she fits this mold as well, but I really don’t consider her a great vaulter or floor worker and think she was just in the right place at the right time for both of those medals (well, floor especially)…I think Melnikova right now is more balanced than Mustafina ever was, even in Mustafina’s prime.

Has any gymnast ever performed or trained a circle element or anything other than a kip directly out of a Bhardwaj? 

No one has competed it, at least not that I can recall…I’m not sure if someone has trained something connected out of a Bhardwaj. I feel like if anyone has trained it, it’s probably Suni Lee, or Jonna Adlerteg, they seem like the most likely! I think the Bhardwaj is tricky to directly connect out of because it’s so difficult to keep it straight in the air, almost everyone ends up catching it with their legs either a bit to the left or the right, and being off-balance in that way can really make it impossible to be in a good enough place to do anything after, even just a clear hip or something. I think they really need that kip to regain their awareness and rhythm before moving on with the rest of the routine, and while it would be cool to see a legit connection, I don’t think most could do it consistently, not with the way almost every Bhardwaj looks. But perhaps one day it will happen!

On uneven bars, for the purpose of CR and CV, would a hop full pirouette like the Chusovitina be considered a flight or a non-flight element?

It’s a non-flight element. Even though the gymnast technically releases the bar in this skill, it’s part of the pirouette skill group in the code of points, and so wouldn’t be eligible to count as a flight element either as a credit requirement or for connection value.

Do you think Alyssa Baumann could have challenged Laurie Hernandez for her Olympics spot if she was healthy? They’re both amazing beam workers and solid on vault and floor.

I don’t think so. Alyssa was a lovely gymnast, but I don’t think she had quite the same level or ability on beam that Laurie had, and Laurie was also clearly the stronger all-arounder, which definitely would have factored into the decision. I don’t think a fully healthy Alyssa would have factored in even as an alternate…she was lovely on floor, but she didn’t really have the scores there generally, and her bars were also pretty weak. I would have loved to see her at trials, but don’t think her presence there would have changed anything that happened.

Do you know anything about Sage Thompson? She changed her commitment to Utah, but didn’t appear on signing day and I doubt she will join the Utes in the 2021-2022 season.

As far as I know she’s still committed to Utah, but I’m guessing as a walk-on, so maybe that’s why she didn’t do an official signing day? Maybe she was still figuring things out? She could be waiting to sign in the spring…but Utah was also weird with their signing day announcement. Lauren Letzsch signed with Utah in the fall, but she wasn’t included in the video that they produced (which featured only Grace McCallum and Kara Eaker), so I’m not sure why that was. The point is, based on Lauren’s signing, I wouldn’t take the lack of appearing in signing day materials as the only indication of whether or not she’ll be there.

If you fall on an element, does it count towards your difficulty score?

It depends on if you ‘hit’ the element…because you can still ‘hit’ an element even if you fall. If you catch a Jaeger and then let go, for example, you can count it toward your difficulty score, but if your fingers don’t touch the bar, you can’t count it. The same goes on beam…if you land a back handspring layout stepout layout stepout and then fall, you’re counting a triple series, but if you fall before you hit the first layout stepout, you have to repeat the series, otherwise you’re basically just counting a single back handspring.

What is the situation with Alaska? I heard many gymnasts left the program and that it was canceled, but then reinstated? What is going on now?

The program was scrapped, so a lot of people started jumping ship knowing the likelihood of it being reinstated was pretty low. The program was supposed to finish up in 2021, and was going to spend the 2021 season campaigning to get reinstated for 2022, but then the 2021 season was canceled due to COVID-19. Now those who are left are still campaigning and fundraising in the hopes they can come back next year, but if they can’t, then they’re done, and the 2020 season that got cut short is going to be the end.

What do you think about the LIU program? Do you think it can be the “the UCLA of the east coast” in a few years or decades?

I think it’s really cool that we’re getting a brand new D1 college gymnastics program, especially during COVID-19 when so many college sports are getting shut down entirely. Will they be “the UCLA of the east coast” in a few years? Probably not. It’ll take them some time to start getting top recruits. They have a couple of really solid gymnasts right now, but obviously building a program takes time, and it’s really difficult to stand out in D1, so we’ll see how they do with recruiting over the coming years. The goal for the team in their first few seasons (or, more realistically, first decade) will be to make regionals, and then once they make that happen, they can start thinking about how to break into the top 20, and then the top 10, and then how to become a national-level program with their sights set on an NCAA title.

Have a question? Ask below! Remember that the form directly below this line is for questions; to comment, keep scrolling to the bottom of the page. We do not answer questions about team predictions nor questions that ask “what do you think of [insert gymnast here]?”

Article by Lauren Hopkins

32 thoughts on “You Asked, The Gymternet Answered

  1. Biles is good but I wouldn’t call her a complete all-arounder. Her UB is better than it used to be, but it’s still not really up to her vault and floor and this quad her BB has gotten much more inconsistent with most of the big stuff taken out of it.

    I’d nominate Aliya Mustafina for the best complete all-arounder since the open-ended COP started.

    Like

    • I think Komova fits the mold really well. Her vault was actually really good and any form issues that she had on her Amanar wasn’t that different or worse than anyone else. I would say Rebeca Andrade as well, her perpetual ACL injuries are unfortunate because she has a great blend of difficulty and execution pretty much everywhere. In terms of newer gymnasts Vladislava Urazova seems extremely balanced and very poised on each event, Ou Yushan’s technique is impeccable and she apparently had ramped up the difficulty a ton across the board and I think if Leanne had much better routine construction than she would be up there too.

      Like

      • I considered Vika and probably should have taken her more seriously because her vault “issues” weren’t all that much more severe than Simone’s bars “issues” but it’s also definitely subjective for me and I just don’t see her as a particularly great floor worker as well, and think that a lot of her all-around score came down to the scores she earned on bars. Rebeca is a great one I missed, though…I’d 100% include her! And definitely Vlada and Yushan as well. I think there are a few in the U.S. I didn’t consider, with Leanne probably being one, and also Morgan Hurd…she literally made every world apparatus final except vault! I think a lot of the U.S. all-arounders have great balance, but just at a lower level than some of the top world all-arounders, so I probably overlooked a bunch of them.

        Like

    • Biles also has, like, zero fluidity on beam and her dance ability on floor is……. meh on a good day. She can vault and back tumble, and that’s about it. Mustafina is definitely the best in the open ended code, no contest.

      Like

      • I would argue the same for Aliya on beam and floor, though. She waves her arms around elegantly, and sometimes has decent choreo, but she isn’t a ‘performer.’ Biles at least performs well on floor in that she knows how to sell a routine (even if the style she’s selling isn’t your thing, she’s still selling a style). Again, it’s subjective, but even subjectively I don’t see how Aliya could be seen as a “more complete” all-arounder than Simone. I think you’re selling a lot of what makes Simone great short. She doesn’t win because of her vaulting and back tumbling…she wins because of her technical skill on every event. Even on bars, where she’s a bit of a clunky gymnast aesthetically, she’s still technically doing almost everything exactly right. Aliya is…not technically there on most of what she’s doing, especially when she goes for more difficult elements. Yes, aesthetically, she does have some qualities that rank her above Simone, but is she a better gymnast/all-arounder, or was she even at her prime? I don’t think that’s even debatable. She’s one of the greats, that’s not up for question, but THE best?

        Like

        • Definitely don’t agree that Aliya isn’t a ‘performer’. I’d say the complete opposite. Her routines have always captured a profound mystique and while they’ve not always been technically perfect – sometimes due to her constant injuries – I think nobody can deny her stage presence and prominence of personality in the sport. Just because she’s not loud in a bolshy American way, doesn’t mean she’s not a ‘performer’.

          I’d also disagree that Mustafina isn’t a good vaulter or floor worker. Obviously she used to have an Amanar in her arsenal and a half on full off, which for the time was pretty advanced. And since her knee injury she’s had one of the most consistent and well scoring DTYs of each quad. Floor she’s competed some amazing passes over the years (especially her whip passes) and shown a tonne of versatility across leaps, spins, tumbling and general dance (although twisting is absolutely terrible post-knee injury, I’ll give you that!). 2010 and 2014 routines stand out for reference and if the 2015 European Games routine was more polished, with the double layout, that would be up there too.

          I love Melnikova, but she’s not got gold-winning individual apparatus final prospects on any event. And I think while Mustafina may not have been exceptional on every event at one time like Simone, she’s been exceptional at every event at least at one point in her career. Looking at her career as a whole, I’d say she’s been a very well balanced gymnast.

          Liked by 1 person

  2. With regard to the question about weight limits for bars, my old gym (one that currently has a few competitive senior elites in the UK) told some of us older recreational gymnasts that we were too heavy for the bars even though we were never asked for our weight. They said the limit was around 134lbs and these were gymnova bars but I don’t think that’s an actual figure they got from the company

    Like

    • That’s interesting…I know people who do bars in adult gym who compete at the adult club level in the U.S. who weigh considerably more than that, so either that’s just Gymnova, or that’s just that particular gym’s rules…I would think between 150-200 for most sets, but also guess that some probably do have a higher limit than others.

      Like

      • I know that particular gym had/has some coaches who have fairly questionable attitudes about body shape and size of athletes so I agree that most bar sets would not have such a low weight limit and its more likely to be the gyms rules

        Like

        • Yeah, that would make sense. I know some gyms have weight limits for various skills/apparatuses just based on what they perceive as what is a “safe” weight for doing gymnastics, which like, yeah, if you have someone who isn’t in the best physical shape showing up at a gym for the first time ever, you probably shouldn’t help them attempt to bust out a double back on a trampoline or something, but I also think most people going into gymnastics gyms have a pretty good understanding of their fitness levels and what they can/can’t physically do? If someone who physically looks a bit larger says they are physically capable of training on a certain apparatus, they probably have experience doing it (and it would quickly become evident if they don’t). Also, most gyms with adult programs have insurance waivers that would take away their liability if someone does get injured…so there are a lot of reasons why restricting people based solely on weight or how they look is nonsense, but I’m sure many gyms do it.

          Like

      • Worth considering bar element physics there. A 100 lb gymnast doing a tkachev will end up putting way more force through the bars than that, while a 160 lb adult rec gymnast who isn’t doing giants won’t end up putting in much more than her weight.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Yeah, that’s what I was thinking, force vs. just weight itself…there’s still SOME force with giants (or even just hanging and having gravity pulling you down) but I’m sure different bar sets have different tensions and can take that force differently?

          Like

    • I know that the cables of the Gymnova bars were shorter than the ones from the JF bars. My coach called the Gymnova bars the kids ones. But I am very sure that elite gymnast put more force on a bar than a recreation gymnast could ever do…

      Like

      • Yeah, we were about 14/15 at the time and had been doing gymnastics for a few years so we were physically fit but still only doing basic skills on bars because we mainly trained on floor. I suppose they had their reasons behind the rule but I’m not sure they were the best reasons..

        Like

  3. Is it me, or are ppl completely not considering Gabby Douglass?! She made 2012 bars n beam finals, and (if I remember correctly) would’ve made floor if she hadn’t stepped out of bounds. She may not have been the top athlete on any individual event, but she was the epitome of an AA athlete who didn’t have a ‘weakness’ in 2012.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I thought about Gabby too…and Jordyn as well! I took Gabby off my list because of beam and floor not really being as strong, but I mean, she literally made the beam final, I think that’s more just what I thought of her beam. A lot of this is definitely subjective and opinion-based, not just down to scores, so for me that’s a lot of it, but I can totally see why people would want to include Gabby (or Aliya or Vika) even though I didn’t.

      Like

      • I’d put Jordyn on that list if it wasn’t for her bars. She wasn’t terrible, but it was def laborious. Correct me if I’m wrong, but was Gabby considered ‘weak’ on beam in 2012? I haven’t followed a code since 2000 (a little of the 2004 code, but not rly). And yes, Vika. But I put her in the Gabby box. Neither of their fx routines made me bother, but it wasn’t as if they were aggressively weak routines. At least in my head.

        Like

        • I think Gabby was considered more ‘risky’ on beam than weak I’d say? She had a good beam if she hit it well, but the concern was always if she’d actually hit, thus not using her in the TF even though she was one of the U.S. gymnasts to make the EF in London. I always consider her beam kind of ‘fine’ but nothing that blew me away. And yes, agree about Jordyn’s bars. They were also ‘fine’ to me…I think she lacked rhythm and finesse there, she got the job done and could score well due to mostly decent technique but wasn’t like, an aesthetically good bar worker or anything.

          Like

    • Ohhhhh YES, that’s right, I totally forgot they used Gabby instead of Jordyn in 2012…I think Jordyn was the original plan, but then when they saw what happened with her score in qualifications that’s when they decided to officially go with Gabby. I still am not like, in love with Gabby’s beam, but it wasn’t bad or anything. But I feel about Gabby’s beam the same way I feel about 99% of beam routines…this is my least favorite event in general and unless someone is truly exceptional, I’m just going to be pretty “meh” about most routines.

      But yeah, I think she was still a risk going into the Olympic year, but then probably proved herself once and for all in QFs…2011 was all about her nationals routine where she fell a million times, they almost made her an alternate at worlds, they put her last on beam in qualifications at worlds because they were nervous about her and wanted her to see everyone else hopefully hit before her so she wouldn’t feel the pressure as much, and then in 2012 she was MUCH better but still not one of the strongest, though she got better the closer it got to London and then I think in London she was at her best probably? I think the team was still counting on Aly, Jordyn, and Kyla being the best three on this event, but I also don’t think Gabby was far behind, and obviously Gabby ended up being excellent in QFs, especially compared to Jordyn with that stupid acro series. I don’t remember her TFs routine at all, but it’s been almost 9 (the horror!) years since I’ve seen any of the TF so I don’t remember a lot…including apparently the fact that she DID the TF, hahaha.

      I feel like in the past I’ve gotten excited about specific skills of Gabby’s on beam, or maybe like, one specific routine, but her routine overall on the regular just hasn’t been something I’d consider a favorite. I’ve also said the same about Rebeca Andrade and and Trinity Thomas before and everyone freaked out, so maybe I just hate beam so much that I don’t appreciate a lot of routines I should enjoy more?!

      Like

      • I also hate beam. It’s skill, stop. Skill, stop. The codes are getting ridiculous and making it hard to keep watching. And I’m starting to feel that way about bars (my fav) event. Making it ALL about handstands ruins the flow of swing options. If I’m not wrong the 1.5 (Dawes) isn’t even in the code anymore. ‘Syco Sveta’ never did it in handstand, but always just rolled thru it, and I loved it.

        But I digress. I’ll just deal until they inevitably remove humans from the sport and make it competition of which country’s robots are the best programmed…

        Like

        • Yeah, beam is really tedious for me to watch…I tune it out a lot if it’s not a routine that moves well, so that’s like, almost every routine. It’s just really hard to pay attention to like, switch + back tuck, then 10 seconds of walking around, then split jump + sissone, then 10 seconds of walking around. I’m like, help??? Literally can’t do it. Then I end up missing half of a routine hahaha. I’m better at focusing while watching bars but yeah, I do feel like it’s also pretty formulaic as well. I wrote about this in a somewhat recent You Asked, maybe in November or something, but I think all of the current CVs make the skills and combinations of skills so limiting because each CV only really works for very specific combos of skills. Theoretically they work for dozens of combos, but in practice, only one or two are actually worth the risk, so then every single gymnast does the same combos, and it just turns gymnastics into a math formula. It’s boring as hell. Frankly any gymnast who can combine literally any skills at a C or higher deserves bonus and I don’t care what those skills are at this point. It should be like, “any D or higher + A skill is 0.1, any C or higher + B combo is 0.1, and any C + C or higher is at least 0.2, we’ll evaluate the really crazy combos as we see fit, now go crazy.”

          Like

  4. I think I’ve heard some stuff about biomechanics contributing to the men vs women twisting injuries difference. When girls start to get wider hips in puberty this is meant to make them more prone to knee injuries due to some physics that I can’t understand!

    Like

      • Physical therapist here. Yes, you are correct. The angle of hip to knee is called the “Q angle.” Women have a big Q angle and men have a small one due to hip width. Big Q angle = bigger knee injury risk. (There’s more to it than that, of course, but it’s a major risk factor.) I cringe watching all of Rebecca Bross’s gymnastics. She was a knee injury just waiting to happen.

        Liked by 1 person

  5. While kip itself technically is not a deduction, kip to handstand after a bad pirouette almost always tend to lead to a very bad handstand angle thus incur deductions of about 0.3… Therefore we still often observe the mysterious ‘kip penalties’.

    Like

  6. Although her vault ended up being not so strong (for the elite level) in 2016, Shang Chunsong also had a pretty consistent beam, floor, and bars routines, and she ended up getting 4th behind Mustafina by a tenth. I would say definitely Mustafina, Biles, and Komova were the best in my opinion.

    Like

  7. So, this has been bothering me for a long time. Why wasn’t Vanessa Farrari canceled after her gross, racist remarks about black gymnasts? I just don’t get it. Like, everyone still loves her and thinks she’s great—why did she get a pass? Did she trot out some excellent remorseful apology that I missed?

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s