It’s time for the 101st edition of You Asked, The Gymternet Answered! We apologize if we haven’t gotten to your question yet, but we try to answer in the order in which they were received (unless they are super relevant and need to be answered in a timely manner). Something you want to know? Ask us anonymously by going through the contact form at the bottom of the page.
It looks like team finals will be at 3 pm on a Tuesday which seems odd. Is that the NBC broadcast time? Can you explain how we can watch live from Rio?
The Olympic team and all-around finals are all held at 4 pm local time, which is 3 pm ET, and all event finals are at 2 pm local (1 pm ET). NBC will stream all events online as they happen. Then they’ll air again later in the day on television, in primetime, with The Trio commentating. You can watch live from Rio on the NBC Live Extra app, and the BBC will also have live streaming coverage (as will other countries – the feed for the streaming coverage will all be the same but the commentators will change based on the market).
Does Laurie Hernandez have any possibility of making it to event finals on beam or floor at the Olympics? Could she medal over Aly Raisman if for some reason Simone Biles didn’t make EFs? Could Simone still make EFs if she fell in qualifications?
Yes, Laurie can absolutely make the beam final. I think she’s definitely stronger on the event than Aly is at the moment, though I think Aly will definitely get in over her on floor. I don’t think Laurie’s floor is very strong aside from her performance value, so it would take a lot for her to get in there, though if Simone for whatever reason missed it, I could see it happening. Simone could absolutely 1000% make the floor final with a fall in qualifications…she can realistically score around a 16 there on a good day, so a 14.7-15 with a fall would definitely still get her into the final, and probably in like, third or fourth place!
Is crossing your feet at the ankles during vault a deduction? Simone Biles does this and got a 9.9 E score at trials with a hop on the landing too. Was she overscored or is this not a deduction?
It is, and Simone is usually docked for it. HOWEVER, I think people – including the judges – really wanted to see her get a 10 on vault if she stuck so I think this little fault of hers was forgiven. And I don’t think anyone really minded, given that it was a domestic meet that didn’t really mean much for her (in the sense that we knew she was going to win and knew she was making the Olympic team). She will likely be deducted for the crossed feet in Rio, and judges basically don’t even need to watch for this – it’s kind of an expected fault. But at home, I think people just really wanted that 10. Me included.
Can you please explain how the role of alternates work? Martha Karolyi picked Gabby Douglas and Madison Kocian over Ashton Locklear because they have all four events if needed, but why would this ever be necessary? If someone gets hurt, aren’t they swapped out for one of the alternates?
Basically, Martha likes having built-in alternates on the team so she doesn’t have to choose from the pool of actual alternates. Larry Nassar has said that when they take someone off the team and replace her with an alternate, the gymnast is literally stripped of her credentials, Olympic gear, everything, and so they try to keep the team as is, opting to use a built-in alternate instead. Like, in 2012 when McKayla Maroney was injured, they figured it was still worth it for her to do vault and then they used Kyla Ross as a built-in alternate on floor, even though Elizabeth Price could’ve come in as an alternate to put up a strong vault score and a higher floor score than Kyla would’ve gotten in qualifications. On the U.S. teams, only in extreme circumstances does an athlete get swapped out.
Do you have any opinions about Martha Karolyi hinting that Gabby Douglas will do the all-around?
I’m honestly not surprised at all, and my opinion is that people who are freaking out about it being “unfair” or “heartbreaking” for Aly Raisman or Laurie Hernandez need to reevaluate their priorities because “unfair” and “heartbreaking” in gymnastics is Axelle Klinckaert busting her knee and Liu Tingting injuring her hand after getting named to the Belgian and Chinese teams, John Orozco blowing out his knee after coming back from injury and personal tragedy to make this year’s team, and Larisa Iordache running the show this quad for Romania only to get to the Olympic year and have her body fall apart. Laurie and Aly are going to the freaking Olympic Games on an Olympic TEAM. They are TEAM players and will do whatever Martha says the TEAM needs them to do. I’m pretty sure they’re okay with it considering the alternative would be NOT BEING ON THE TEAM.
Here’s a very important fact – lineups aren’t based off of how gymnasts perform at the Olympic Trials, just like last year, lineups weren’t based off of nationals. Yes, Laurie was second at trials and Aly was third, but they finished super close to one another, Laurie was incredibly overscored, and Gabby without falls would’ve scored about the same as they did. It’s not like Aly or Laurie is realistically at a 61 AA while Gabby is at a 59. They’re all on the same page and can do the same job. Placements at competitions mean nothing in terms of team selection when the gymnasts are that close and no successful program makes decisions this way (except Trinidad & Tobago, which decided its test event gymnast based on a single placement six months before the test event…and we all saw how well THAT worked out).
You don’t know how Gabby has looked in the past month. Yes, the Olympic Trials were a month before the Games. Given that Gabby has reportedly been doing well at camp and hasn’t had any falls, it’s possible she is outscoring Laurie and Aly at the ranch. How would you know?
Also, Gabby is the second-best bar worker on the team after Madison Kocian. They’re not going to name Gabby to the team for bars and then have her…sit out bars. Like, what? And because having a bars specialist means bars is the most crowded, bars is the decision-maker for the all-around spot just like it was at worlds last year. Gabby was fifth at nationals last year and yet did the all-around – ahem, and won the world silver all-around medal – because she was a lock for a bars spot just like she is this year. With Madison likely going up only on bars, it means the other four will all do vault, beam, and floor in qualifications, so Gabby getting a bars spot in addition to those three events automatically makes her an all-arounder. It’s that simple.
Yes, it’s too bad that Laurie and Aly both showed full readiness at the Olympic Trials and Gabby didn’t. But really, Gabby falling on beam at trials – an event she’ll only be needed for in qualifications – wasn’t the end of the world. Saying her beam falls a month ago make her unworthy is like saying Madison’s beam falls this summer and her FTY on vault make her unworthy of her bars spot. Beam aside, her trials actually went pretty well, though no decisions are made based on trials when the gymnasts are that close in their all-around abilities. What you do at camp leading up to the Games is about 900% more important than what you do at trials. Looking at it from the other side of things, if you’re fully ready and perfect on bars at trials but fall on every routine at the ranch or at podium training, is Martha going to put you up on bars? NO. Martha waits until after podium training to make her final decisions, so really, trials in the Olympic year or nationals in any other year has very little to do with it. It’s all about camp and podium training.
Look back to 2012 for a good example…for those who ended up making the team, Jordyn Wieber was #2 on beam at trials, #3 at nationals, and #1 at classics. But based on what she showed at camp, she was not in the top three on the event and only performed on beam in qualifications, not getting a team finals beam spot despite consistently being in the top three all summer prior to that. Gabby, meanwhile, was #4 at trials, #4 at nationals, and #4 at classics. Guess who went up in team finals at the Olympic Games? Gabby. Guess who got the highest beam score in the team final at the Olympic Games? Gabby. Guess who made the event final on beam? Gabby.
Case in point – how you perform at trials and other domestic meets leading up to the Games matter very little if you change how you’re performing as the Games get closer. Gabby was the weakest all-arounder at trials thanks to her falls on beam, but without falling at the training camp, she is likely at the same exact level as Laurie and Aly. It DOES NOT MATTER who does the all-around, because whoever goes up – and whoever makes it to the final – is going to almost certainly get the silver behind Simone Biles, especially as the international field continues to implode.
Alaina Kwan scored higher than Kylie Dickson at worlds. Why did Belarus opt to send Kylie to the test event over Alaina?
This is kind of the perfect follow-up to my Gabby tirade above. Worlds were six months before the test event and no decision should ever be made based on one single result from a meet that happens weeks or months in advance. As the test event got closer, Kylie looked better than Alaina in the gym, and so Kylie earned the spot. Trinidad & Tobago made the mistake of saying that whoever placed higher at worlds would automatically get the test event spot, but then realized as the 2016 season went on that Marisa Dick was consistently outperforming Thema Williams, which is where the whole drama of them going back on their word started. To be frank, it is ridiculous to make a major decision based on (a) a single result, and (b) a meet held weeks/months in advance.
Why is the U.S. bringing alternates to Rio?
Mostly, just in case something happens to someone on the team. They almost certainly will not be used, because as I’ve mentioned, Martha Karolyi likes to go with built-in alternates, but there’s always the off-chance that an injury will happen to completely take a gymnast off the team (a major concussion, a broken leg, injuries that won’t allow a gymnast to perform even a single event).
What are the chances the gymnasts are looking for an alternative place to stay, given the hullabaloo over the athletes’ housing? What do you think will become of the housing situation?
It seems that the issues raised by the Australians have been addressed, and the Australians are moving back into the village. I think most of the gymnasts who have already arrived haven’t had any major issues yet, and Aimee Boorman said on Twitter that they’re definitely staying there and putting up with it. It’s not ideal, but their attitude is that they’re only in that situation for a couple of weeks. In the grand scheme of things, they’re fine.
What’s the connection value of a D transition to an E release skill? For example, Elisabeth Seitz connects a Maloney to a Ricna…technically it qualifies for two different connection bonuses.
A D low to high transition into a release that’s D or higher gets 0.2, and any D + E flight element connection gets 0.2. Because Elisabeth’s Maloney to Ricna can fit into both categories, she gets the 0.2 either way…there’s basically no sort of “extra credit” for hitting two different CVs simultaneously.
After the Rio test event, wasn’t there one WAG Olympic spot that the FIG could fill and everyone hoped they’d use it so both Catalina Ponor and Larisa Iordache could compete? What happened to that spot?
The spot isn’t a free-for-all spot and could never go to two gymnasts from the same country, no matter what the gym fans tried to make happen via petition or whatever. The “wildcard” spot is actually a tripartite spot, and can only go to a gymnast from a country that (a) competed at worlds last year and (b) sent eight or fewer total athletes to the previous two Olympic Games. The only countries eligible for this spot were Bermuda, Bolivia, the Cayman Islands, Malta, Monaco, and Panama. The Olympic Tripartite Commission (comprised of members from the IOC, the FIG, and the ANOC) then chooses, generally based on who from these countries performed best at worlds.
Isabella Amado from Panama, who had the highest worlds finish among those from these countries, got the “wildcard” spot. She had some mistakes and a fall at worlds, but when she’s competing at full strength, she’s at the same standard as those who received individual spots through the test event. Isabella is a four-time world challenge cup medalist, and after the Olympics will go to Boise State to compete at the NCAA level alongside fellow 2016 Olympian Courtney McGregor of New Zealand.
Who do you think will compete all-around for Great Britain in Rio?
It’s funny, because their situation is similar to the U.S. given that they have a bars specialist, making bars the decision-maker. I think Ellie Downie and Claudia Fragapane will definitely be in the all-around, and then Becky Downie will obviously do bars, so I think it’ll come between Amy Tinkler and Ruby Harrold. Amy is the strongest all-arounder, but I think they might want Ruby’s bars because it’s basically the reason she made the team? But then at the same time Ruby is weak on beam, so they kind of need Amy in qualifications, meaning they’d have…
Claudia & Ellie – AA
Becky – UB, BB
Amy – VT, BB, FX
Ruby – VT, UB, FX
This would only put two up in the all-around in qualifications, which is why it would make most sense to have Claudia, Ellie, and Amy in the all-around, Becky on her two, and then Ruby only on vault and floor…but with bars Ruby’s best event, again, it makes almost no sense to have her not compete bars. They could also have Claudia, Ellie, and Ruby in the all-around with Amy as the vault and floor specialist, but again, that makes beam in qualifications a super weak event.
In reality, Claudia should be the vault and floor specialist, given that she is the weakest on bars and also generally falls or makes large mistakes on beam. But I’m pretty sure they want her as an all-arounder, which kind of messes everything up.
To sum up, I think Claudia and Ellie will definitely be in the all-around, and then whether they have a third will be a question of what they decide to do with Ruby. I think given Ruby’s issues with consistency on bars this year, I personally would have Amy in the all-around and Ruby only doing vault and floor as the complement to Becky on bars and beam, but I don’t know. They have so many options and it’ll probably come down to how everyone looks at podium training. I think it could definitely be a last-minute decision.
Have a question? Ask below! Remember that the form directly below this line is for questions; to comment, keep scrolling to the bottom of the page. Keep in mind, we sometimes get about 50 questions a day and can only answer usually around 30 or so a week, so don’t be discouraged if we don’t get to you right away. We do not answer questions about team predictions nor questions that say “what do you think of [insert gymnast here].”
Article by Lauren Hopkins
The Gymternet 
Jordyn was not the lead off gymnast in qualification for beam. The order was Kyla, Gabby, Jordyn, Aly.
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I meant as the gymnast who competed in qualifications but not in finals.
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Wel you’ve edited the post so I can’t copy what you said originally, but this was not at all clear.
Also, TF selection usually has less to do with how you looked in camp than it does about how you scored in prelims. Given that Jordyn was given later lineup spot than Kyla or Gabby in quals, one could infer that it was anticipated she would out score them (which was crap, bc her connections were never going to be credited in London.) She only lost her spot in TF after her score in qualification. It didn’t have anything to do with how she looked at camp. If it was bc of how she looked at camp she never would have gone up after Kyla and Gabby in prelims to begin with.
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I edited it because it was unclear. 🙂 Jordyn actually was originally supposed to be the leadoff in qualifications and was never expected to do the team final – I know this because John Geddert ranted about not being happy with how that worked. Because she improved in podium training, she was put up second-to-last, but then her score in prelims showed that Martha made the right decision in the first place. She wasn’t taken out of the team final based on a single score. That had been in the making for a while, because Martha knew she wasn’t going to score as well at the Games as she did at home…which ended up being the case. I know Geddert fought to get her in the TF lineup and maybe had she been super smooth in quals, it would’ve happened. But he was definitely ranting about her possibly not being in TFs at camp, and even got in trouble for his rants because he essentially released potential lineups on his blog.
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Is it just me or does Geddart seem irresponsible (for lack of a better word) as a coach in a number of ways? His judgement at times seems….lacking. Poor Jordyn. That must have been a bitter pill to swallow going in to the Olympics. She had a hairline fracture in addition to the poorly constructed beam routine right?
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Shoot. I accidentally submitted my comment as a question. Is there anyway to fix that?
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I could email it to you and you could repost!
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Thanks!
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I think the GB AA situation is very interesting. I agree that I think they want Claudia to compete AA, and it’s funny because with Claudia it’s almost a bit of a Gabby situation in that she isn’t necessarily the obvious choice for AA over Amy (I’d much rather watch Amy and Ellie in AA personally, and Claudia in the floor final), but Claudia is the big name in the UK because of her commonwealth success putting her all over everyone’s TV screens, so I can see how this might affect the decision making in a slightly similar way to Gabby/NBC. Don’t get me wrong, I think Claudia is FAB but I love Amy’s new beam and she just seems more of an AA contender somehow. Her DTY is great and she is a bit cleaner overall. Also, if Claudia didn’t do AA and made floor final she would be less tired once floor final came round and could really focus on that. I think she could possibly challenge for bronze there, whereas an AA medal is most realistic for Ellie out of all the GB women.
I’d probably prefer to see the following in qualifications:
VT Ruby, Claudia, Amy, Ellie
UB Amy, Ellie, Ruby, Becky
BB Amy, Claudia, Ellie, Becky
FX Ruby, Amy, Ellie, Claudia
(Not sure what vault Ruby is doing but I assume Becky D doesn’t compete one..and these aren’t necessarily in the most logical performance order).
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I totally agree about Claudia…I think Amy fits better as an AAer but it’s hard to count Claudia out both for who she is and because she’s the national champion and blah blah. She definitely makes more sense to sit out bars but I think it’ll definitely happen that she goes in.
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Also just from an equitable dividing-up-the-honours way, I don’t expect Amy to make any individual finals so it would be nice for her to get the chance to be the 2nd AAer and thus to compete in a final. Because even if Claudia had her best day ever I can’t imagine her getting a medal so it kinda doesn’t matter who the 2nd AA competitor is. I may be wrong – Claudia may bust out an amanar and a crazy new bar routine, who knows – but I doubt it.
So, yeah, they will probably just end up saving Ruby’s epic bars for TF.. which is super weird, but OK.
Are you going to get a chance to preview the British team and the other teams by Rio, or is that a ridiculous suggestion?
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I’m going to do a full team preview! I’ve kind of already gone into all of the teams when they were announced, so that’s a preview/analysis of each one, but when it gets closer to the Games I’ll preview them as a whole to see where I think each one will end up.
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I totally thought about this comment while watching Amy slay in Rio. You were 100% right on. Seeing how incredible she was, I think she would have killed it in the AA. Her FX ef routine was unbelievable. I was so happy to see her walk away with a medal. She was absolutely the star of GB at the games. I so hope she keeps it up and we see her kill it next quad. I’m excited for GB. Going into the next quad, if Ellie, Claudia, and Amy can stay healthy and if Claudia and Ellie can improve their consistency, they could have a killer quad!
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I know, right?! Although, I’m incredibly happy that it did work out for Amy and she got the FX medal even though no-one was really expecting it, and without getting a shot at AA.
She’s been really good at focusing on the job in hand and performing well when it really matters for GB in her career so far – I really hope she can stay healthy and do it for the next four years too.
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I’m definitely starting to think there’s an element of racism to some of the criticism Gabby is still getting. After just finding out that McKayla Skinner is making unsportsmanlike and racist comments on social media and that she has a history of being racist and homophobic online, I’m so glad Gabby is on the team now! How is it that Skinner’s deplorable behavior isn’t mentioned often enough for me to catch wind of it until just now but Gabby gets crapped on for not smiling enough at the US championships? I usually try to focus on the gymnastics, not the personalities, but this is just ridiculous.
/rant
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I was surprised Mykayla was still an alternate after her ‘rant’ on social media. She really needs to mature before she heads to Utah.
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I’m kinda sick of this ^^^
becoming an issue of race. The fact is she admitted to not haveing a passion for the sport as she did in the past and in a performance art based sport your demeanor is visible and especially notable if it differs from past performances. I don’t see any reason to drag race into the issue. I can see why people were upset about her attitude and lackluster performance at trials but agree Martha knows what she is doing and knows the timing of her preparation and selected the best team, but others disagree and don’t. That’s all there is to it. There is enough real racial tension in this world that we don’t need valid subjective opinions about athletic performances becoming falsely claimed as racial issues
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People can and do argue about which gymnasts they think should be on or off the team. I’ve said before I’m not pro-Gabby but I can understand why Martha/USAG want her.
What seems particular to Gabby is a real vociferousness among certain commenters, and I don’t understand that. I think that’s what weirwoodtreehugger is getting at (correct me if I’m wrong!). There just seems to be something else in play about why people are so angry.
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Yes. That’s what I was saying. I kind of felt like it was unfair that gymnasts performing at their peak didn’t make the cut, but that doesn’t necessarily mean she’s undeserving either. People are so ridiculously angry about it.
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I’m not saying every single criticism of her is racist, but in the aggregate, I think it’s a factor. She is criticized way more harshly than almost anyone.
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Certainly following the 2012 win there was a great deal of racially tinged criticism (comments about her hair for example) and I’m sure that hasn’t gone away. I think a lot of the criticism Gabby gets is also sexist in nature, such as “not smiling,” which she gets criticized for at almost every meet. (I mean, even the expression “resting bitch face” is sexist, and that isn’t just applied to Gabby. I prefer “fierce face.”) Gabby has a fierce expression when she goes up on the podium to compete, and that’s fine. It looks out of place during her FX and that really bothers a lot of people (Gogean also caught flack for that), but that could be fixed with choreography and music that go with that.
I think the other thing that comes into play with Gabby, and that causes her to be criticized more harshly, is the multiple times that Martha has said that she trains better if she has a competition to go to, so we are going to send her to as many as possible. (Or some variation on that theme). I would imagine that this is true for just about everyone; that your focus and training rev up closer to a meet. These comments taken in conjunction with the overall lack of international competition opportunities (Martha favors team comps, and as Lauren pointed out in another thread that it isn’t as easy for US athletes to attend World Cup events due to location and timing because of age/school), it means a lot of gymnasts don’t get picked for some of the smaller competitions we do send gymnasts to in favor of Gabby. And then when the major ones roll around the party line is “oh she’s lacking in international experience.” This causes a lot of people to see red, especially if their favorite gymnast is left out in the cold. I really don’t think Martha understands how bad those comments sound. Obviously Gabby has to have a strong work ethic and natural talent to have gotten to a point where they would even care about her level of focus, but those comments make her sound unfocused and undisciplined.
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The fact that you don’t see a reason ‘to drag race into the issue’ showcases that race is an underlying issue here, we can’t allow white fragility to prohibit us from having these very real conversations. Woman of color have an extensive history of being mocked/scorned for not performing happiness – you may or may not know that, likely not, if you are not a black woman. So if an entire online community is attacking one gymnast for not smiling, than I’m absolutely dragging race into the discussion because it most certainly applies.
Not hear to argue, but to educate.
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Sorry as a black person of color, I gotta say I’m not buying the race thing or the ever so popular, tell the woman to smile sjw nonsense, how dare they!
1. I distinctly remember, it was mostly BLACK POC commenting on Gabby’s hair. My family members who are black women, included in the mix. 🙂
2. SMILE SMILE SMILE. Clearly I see it clear as day, it’s very simple, but everyone wants to SJW the shit outta everything. Yawn. GABBY USED TO SMILE ALL THE TIME. NOW SHE DOESN’T. There is a large contrast. It’s pretty common to note it, and mention it. To observe it! If Gabby doesn’t want to smile, because she wants to be ‘fierce’ or serious, she can. But to cry SJW tears because people are clearly seeing a difference, is silly. She isn’t walking down the streets of NYC, and every douche is yelling at her to smile. People are simply noting and seeing the difference in her COMPETITIONS. But for the people who are projecting every single black womans issue onto Gabby are reaching. But then I guess being a man, I’m just mansplainin… and poor Gabrielle wasn’t really smiling before in her 2012 competitions, she was merely hiding her subconscious pain, and was crying inside. Now Gabrielle, who is serious, stoic, IS MERELY TAKING A STAND against all the impossible standards the world puts on Black women to perform ‘happiness’ IT HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH THE FACT SHE WAS SMILING SO MUCH, AND SEEMED SO ALIVE, IN HER PERSONALITY AND GYMNASTICS BEFORE. GTFO.
Gabby made it to RIO. I hope she does well and kills it. The rest OFIT IS for SJW tumblr safe place trigger free infants. Do these issues exist? YES. Will they exist projected onto every event, person, because thats all you can perceive? YES!!!!!
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@Leo, I have no idea what SJW stands for, but it is one thing to notice the difference between her persona in the previous quad, or even between one competition and the next, and it is another to say nasty things about her personality based on the fact that she isn’t smiling, which I have seen people do. (Not you). Female gymnasts get flack all the time for not smiling while competing but male gymnasts do not. That is a sexist double standard and that is what I was alluding to. Belittling that observation and making condescending remarks about it doesn’t change that fact.
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The fact that I don’t think race should be brought into a discussion does not equal it being an actual issue. That is an illogical argument. There is a real very non racial analysis of her performance that stemmed from her admitted lack of passion and a less than stellar performance.Are there rude racist comments out there? Sure. There’s also creepy Raisman /Mustafina Stan comments too.But that does not point to the fact that the majority of analysis by gym fans has absolutely nothing to do with race and that I find it extremely socially irresponsible to call things racist when they largely aren’t. Like I said before there are plenty of REAL race issues currently and I think it takes away from REAL problems when people say things like commentary on athletic performances are due to race when they aren’t.
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Emily- Regarding a sexist double standard: there’s also the situation the WAG and MAG place very different values on performance. The competition demeanor of the men might not be commented on as much, but they also don’t dance to music in their floor routines, with the expectation of combining a tumbling exercise with an emotive performance. I just find complaining about different standards for men and women in gymnastics ironic considering the entire sport is built on different expectations for men and women.
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The racism has been more implicit than explicit.
Angry redditors have called Gabby USAG’s “affirmative action pick,” and Skinner’s twitter followers are using monkey emoticons as shorthand in their rants about Gabby.
It’s not Jim Crow, but it’s also stuff that Kocian would never have directed at her.
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That is extremely disappointing. I remember last year something being mentioned, but it was almost like a rumor because no one could (or would) share what she had said. I just scrolled through her twitter feed and saw an apology tweet for retweeting something offensive, but not the original tweet. Obviously she shared something offensive enough to have to both delete it and apologize. Not cool.
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Could you please specify what things Mykayla sent? I read few months ago that she wrote something “racist” but I never saw any example. Recently I saw a photo with her in the group photo instead of Gabby (and she was just retweeting it – I found it as understandable thing from someone who had their heart broken from not being chosen at Trials after a great performance and she just wanted to retweet someone who supported her). I dont want to insult anyone, but as non american, I think that this is an issue with your over the top “politeness” – retweeting such picture would not be a deal in my country…
I’m so tired about the race card played over and over again. I think especially on this page where you can find mostly well-founded opinions it’s weird to talk about it. There are other things why people criticise Gabby… As they are mentioned here.
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Here’s a hint–using the phrase “race card” is not a good idea in a discussion like this. It’s glib and dismissive, and it implies that any time racial issues are brought up, it’s to win an argument, as a ploy, rather than an earnest attempt to understand or a legitimate protest. You may be “so tired” of discussing race in gymnastics but the issues are still there. Just because Gabby and Simone have had great success doesn’t mean there isn’t lingering prejudice. Carlotta Ferlito’s comments in 2013 should demonstrate that amply.
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Sorry for using an expression in a wrong way, English is my third language…
I just wanted to say that there are other arguments that people mentioned here why people dont like Gabby or dont think she should do the AA… And race wasnt one of them.
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@Ota: most racists aren’t going to come right out and say they hate someone for being black. It’s a lot more subtle than that. (Note: I am not accusing any commenters here of being racist, but there is a ton of Gabby vitriol in the wider gymternet, which is what I think we’re all discussing.) It just seems like people hate Gabby for reasons having nothing to do with her gymnastics, even if they try to make their arguments all about gym. There is (to me) clearly something else behind it. Maybe they think she’s a famewhore, maybe they think her mom is terrible, maybe they think her personality sucks. And yes, *maybe* her race is a factor for *some* people. Saying “there are other issues at play!” doesn’t negate that.
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You found it understandable she’s retweet a photo that removed a teammate and had her in its place?? That’s a pretty big deal and she should have been made to do more than apologize for “that tweet” – didn’t even mention which one or apologize to Gabby. Being disappointed is fine, but she’s an adult woman who has deferred college and should be treated as such in her expectations and behaviour as such.
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Yes, I didn’t find it offensive. It’s just a picture… I dont want to get more into it, it’s clear our opinions are different, maybe people from the USA are more sensitive to those things…
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The picture was retweeted along with a monkey emoji. It’s been a common thing for a long time now for racist imagery to compare black people to monkeys, gorillas and other primates. It’s rooted in the scientific racism popular in the 19th century. It was a popular opinion that white people are more evolved and human and black people less evolved and closer to primates.
I don’t see why racism can’t be discussed here? Gymnastics isn’t some sort of bubble that’s immune to the culture at large. There’s racism in gymnastics because there’s racism everywhere.
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Holy crap, that is appalling. Now, I can understand being upset, but that is way out of line. She trained, competed, and lived with Gabby (and Simone) and she resorts to that? I have no words.
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Racism has nothing to do with this! Mykayla probably felt frustrated and annoyed not because of Gabby’s race, but because Mykayla had the meet of her life and Gabby fell twice. She thought she deserved to be on the team, and she thought Gabby didn’t. Mykayla has gotten a ton of shit for her comments, and she should. But, again, this wasn’t anything to do with racism and more with whether people thought Gabby deserved to be on her team with her performance at Trials.
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Retweeting that picture could be dismissed as mere frustration. The monkey emoji can’t.
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Are you kidding with this or….? Because there’s no possible way you can be serious.
You’re blowing the “monkey emoji” thing COMPLETELY out of proportion. I’m going to assume you’re old and not familiar with emoji speak at all? There are three “monkey emojis” and they are the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil monkeys. Its common in social media to use one of those, usually the see no evil or speak no evil ones when retweeting or commenting on something something controversial. Basically like you’re covering your eyes because you don’t want to see the reaction or covering your mouth like “I’m not going to comment further.” It has absolutely not a thing in this world to do with her referring to Gabby as a monkey. Like are you kidding me? I seriously hope you’re not peddling this racist theory of yours around the “Gymternet” because you could not be more wrong and starting a racist witch hunt, ESPECIALLY at times like this is just irresponsible. Its actually quite comical how wrong you are and how absolutely sure of yourself you were.
DISCLAIMER: I am a BLACK WOMAN.
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@Taylor, I think you’re probably right about MyKayla’s intention, BUT she should be smart enough to know that using a monkey emoji next to a blond girl emoji could EASILY be interpreted as racist and offensive to people. After several social media snafus, you’d think she would get a clue.
Also, emojis show up differently on different platforms. That could have been a factor in how people interpreted what happened.
weirwood is far from the only person to express this view, so there’s no need for a personal attack.
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What racist comments did Mykayla Skinner make
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By “Guess who got the highest beam score in the team final at the Olympic Games? Gabby.” do you mean the highest beam score on the US team? Several other gymnasts scored higher than Gabby–Sui Lu, Catalina Ponor and Larisa Iordache.
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Yeah, the U.S. team – because Sui, Ponor, and Iordache weren’t competing for the U.S. and therefore wouldn’t factor into the lineup decisions.
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Makes sense. Thanks for the article!
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This response = EVERYTHING! LMAO!
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Before I start (and to prevent people from jumping all over me): I’m not one of the extremist anti-Gabby people out there, and I think Marta’s position is defensible; I just don’t think it’s as clear cut as you make it out to be.
re Gabby issue – You seem to have two main points:
1) Line ups are determined as close to the actual competition as possible.
Once Gabby was on the team, this is true – but it doesn’t explain why she was put on the team in the first place. I think it could be justified for Marta to say that Gabby’s competition history shows she’s a better bet than MyKayla, but what that basically means is that Olympic Trials are pointless- just one among many in a string of competitions – and while that may be a good thing, if it’s true, then the public (and maybe some of the gymnasts) are being fooled in order to make more money (selling more tickets to the competition, etc), so no wonder people are upset.
Also, you can’t have it both ways: If the only thing that matters is how you perform at the last second (podium training) without consideration for the more distant past, then why did Gabby get on the team despite performing (relatively) badly on her last 3/4 attempts (Nationals+Trials) before naming the team (besides falling on beam, she had mistakes on her bars as well on several of those routines)?
2) Gabby’s bars guarantees her an AA spot
The question is whether getting the highest amount of points in qualification is the only consideration. Operating under the extremely reasonable assumption that the US is going to make the team finals even if KOCIAN would do all four events, the US wouldn’t lose anything by having Gabby only doing bars in TF (and letting someone else do it in qual in order to attempt getting into AA final). In fact, given the level of competition, the US could easily have a lesser bars gymnast perform in TF too and still win easily (and we know Marta thinks this way because Simone was rested in worlds TF on UB, despite it costing the US some points). If the only thing that will change is the MARGIN by which US wins qual (or even TF), then other factors are worthy of coming into play, such as medal potential (which would have brought MyKayla to the team), or fairness (since the US second gymnast is nearly guaranteed a silver medal, the spot should go to the gymnast performing the best AA leading up to the Olympics).
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1) The question asked about my opinion about Gabby in the all-around, not Gabby on the team. I’ve already stated my opinion about that multiple times and was actually against her being on the team.
2) The US would make TFs no matter what, so no, having a maxed-out bars lineup won’t matter. however, Gabby is the second-best bar worker in the country. No matter how far ahead the US team is, they’re not going to sit the second-best bar worker and take away her chance of getting into the UB final, lest we forget she was actually FIFTH in the world in the UB final last year and while she isn’t the strongest medal contender this year, the final is well within her reach.
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I don’t know, I really just don’t see Gabby in bars final without mistakes from others. I mean, let’s just say everyone hits and the front runners for the final would be (using only 2 per country): Fan Yilin, Daria Spiridonova, Aliya Mustafina, Tan Jiaxin/Shang Chunsong, Madison Kocian, Elizabeth Seitz, Becky Downie, Sophie Scheder. (Am I forgetting anyone?) Thats 8, but if one falls I could see Gabby making the final… if she also hits.
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But the top tier makes mistakes all the time! Think about bars at Worlds last year. Yeah, you can’t guarantee a spot with a more second-tier athlete, but Gabby has made EFs before and totally could again.
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Exactly. Last year’s bars field was similar, almost identical. But Gabby got in and placed 5th because others always make mistakes (i.e. Becky not making finals).
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Crap, I meant beam at Worlds, not bars!
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This was a great analysis, I think you really hit on the biggest points. I especially think it was a salient point that if everything is supposed to be about where you are the LAST POSSIBLE SECOND before competition starts, then why wasn’t the team chosen by where the gymnasts where the last possible moment before selection?
I also think this whole situation of whether doing what is best for the team total in qualification is the only consideration makes the Laurie/Aly situation even more interesting. There’s been plenty of talk already that Simone, Gabby, Aly is the media-minded choice for the AA in quals, but would also contradict putting up the best lineups on each event in quals, which is (at least part of) the argument for putting up Gabby. So with Gabby going up in quals, are they going to go the media-minded route and then do a sub-in in finals or are they going to do the best on the event?
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http://rewritingrussiangymnastics.blogspot.com/2016/07/russian-artistic-gymnasts-all-clean.html
Paseka is now very questionable. Melka hamstring is now a real issue and she might do water down routines. This Russian team is not doing well at all ;(. I actually feel sad for them and almost like rooting for an underdog going up a ful strength GB…
without paseka vt and with melka doing water down routine, there’s only aliya and she can only do so much at this point. seda is like worse then flipping a coin sometimes. 😦
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Any chance this is misinformation in order to keep pressure off and expectations low?
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I don’t think VRod would deliberately overstate injury and understate capability. if anything they always have been like “oh we are definitely fighting for the top spots” against the US and China or overstating their case.
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Crap. Yeah, I just read the article on International Gymnast about it. Bah. The fight for bronze just got blown wide open. I hate that it is as a result of injury as opposed to competition. And I love Paseka and it sounds like she might not even get to compete at all.
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Thank you, as always, for this. Please forgive me for going grammar-stickler for a minute, though — why do you use “literally” so much? I see it five times in three questions here. And misusing it as an intensifier for something figurative is one thing (like, “it’s literally as hot as an oven outside” — I hate it, but I do realize I’m in the minority there), but “it is literally ridiculous”? Whyyyy? It’s so distracting to me. 😦
(pedantic complaint over, back to gymnastics, sorry)
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I use literally so much because I literally am ridiculous – my tumblr name is imliterallygarbage solely because I’m garbage for using the word literally too much.
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You have a tumblr, Lauren?! Hooray, I didn’t actually want to do work this afternoon.
We all have our writing tics. I overuse ellipses and all caps online, but I think people can handle it. 🙂
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True, Becca — we all do. I certainly do.
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Hahaha yes I do! And it’s LITERALLY imliterallygarbage.
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I didn’t say you were garbage! Please forgive me if I sounded like I was attacking you. I asked because it’s literally (ha) the only thing that bothers me, writing-wise, when I read your articles, and I was honestly wondering, because it seems more like an ingrained habit than something that serves a purpose. (Back in college, a professor pointed out to me that I used “is this” constructions all the time in my papers: “The bottom line is this”; “The crux of the issue is this”; “The consequence was this”. I hadn’t even noticed; I just used that phrasing automatically, almost like a tic. But when I looked back at my papers after that conversation, it was really obvious and distracting.)
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I think Lauren’s just teasing! I left her a pedantic comment the other day and she was nice about it.
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Well, good to know I’m not the only one pedantic enough to leave a comment about grammar on a site unrelated to grammar. 🙂
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@Elizabeth: Same here! I don’t even know what possessed me to comment. I think in addition to tics, we all have our pet peeves. 🙂 Meanwhile we are peeving other people out. Ah, humanity.
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No I’m kidding!! My tumblr is literally IMLITERALLYGARBAGE because I am garbage for using the word literally too much. Like…I’m being 100% serious LOL.
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I just went on Tumblr and saw you’re serious. I’m dying with laughter right now. Not literally.
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Hahahaha this is a joke that has basically gone on forever, and I think I got it from Chris on Parks and Rec? He says “this is LIT’RALLY my favorite [whatever]” all the time and so I kind of say literally like that I guess? But yes, it sneaks into everything in my life now.
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Hey! Do you know if USA gymnastics will share any training videos from Rio, including podium training? Is there a website that I should be keeping an eye on? Thank you!!!
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I don’t think they will but I’ll post if I see anything!
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Hello, I hope Ellie and Amy for AA. I think Claudia-FX, BB and VT. I love your page Laurie, thaks!
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Any idea what the roommate situation is for the us team? Do coaches also stay in the village?
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All I’ve seen is that Simone and Laurie are rooming together
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I’ve often wondered, with a five person team, if someone gets a single or if it is a pair and then a triple?
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Or does the fifth have to room with Marta?? 😂
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I’m pretty sure it’s a single. Cuz I remember in 2012 I think Gabby was by herself
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I heard Gabby and Aly are rooming together. The alternates are staying some where else. I did see on one Ashton’s SnapChat that is an hour drive to get to the training gym. I did hear there are no outlets either.
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There are outlets…that was people on Tumblr not understanding context, lol. Laurie meant there were no available outlets because they used them all.
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Dear Lauren, I have been reading your blog for years and I really love it. Thank you for all the updates and all your hard work. I am a Brazilian citizen that lived in the country for 28 years. I call the US home now.
I love my country and I also love gymnastics. Brazil is an amazing place, it is beautiful and interesting. It breaks my heart to see the comments that people is doing about the accommodations in Rio de Janeiro. I think delegations and athletes from all countries should remember to respect all the hard work that was put into it to welcome them well. If they don’t have something good to say they should just stay quiet.
Brazil is facing one of the worst economical crises from the last 30 years. I am sure a lot of Brazilians would rather have more schools and hospitals than the games. Although my country is facing a lot of challenges my people will still welcome all the athletes with open arms and big smiles.
I am sure the Rio Olympics will be amazing. It will not be because we have the best Olympic village for sure. It will be because there is amazing people in Brazil. We have the soul and the heart to face life with a smile in our faces and make the best of it. In my country we learn early on that life is not easy. It is that knowledge that makes us appreciate it even more. I really hope most of the athletes can understand what Brazil is all about. I really hope they can find a warm place in their heart for my country and my people.
Enjoy the games!
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I was in Rio for the test event in April and even with all of the construction and everything going on with roads and everything, I have never felt more welcome in a country or city! And I was thinking about that today actually…how people are complaining about the housing situation when so many people in Brazil living in poverty would KILL to have housing like the athlete housing.
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So that makes TF & AA 5am and EF 3am my time. Joy.
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Lauren, you bring up some good points about the AA & Gabby. I am one of those who will be pretty bummed and disappointed if I do not get to see an Aly/Laurie battle in AA qualifications, but it is not because I think it is heartbreaking to them or unfair. It is just because I prefer their gymnastics at this point in time. And, they have been neck and neck these last couple of months…I would love to see how they compare on an international stage.
Well, really, I prefer Laurie’s gymnastics all the way around, and I have mad respect for Aly’s determination, leadership, & work ethic. Her performance at P&Gs was spot on and her floor is something to behold.
Gabby’s gymnastics just has not been quite as inspired as it was in the past, at least to me. But I definitely have respect for all that she has accomplished. If I do not get my wish with Aly/Laurie, I will pull for Gabby to hit, and then may the best woman move forward to finals (between Gabby/Laurie or Gabby/Aly).
I wish USAG would release verification results from camp, and/or at least placements; maybe it would quite all the chatter.
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There are results from camp? Do they have a meet without the public or something?
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I believe at camps they typically have internal/closed door competitions and rank the gymnasts, however they do not release placements or scores. Not sure if they did this at the olympic training camp, but am assuming so.
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My concern about gabby is that even if she didn’t have those two falls, if you add 2 points back to her two days score she would still not beat aly and laurie and would still be in 4th. And I don’t think it would be even close even if she didn’t fall twice on beam. We can argue laurie was overscored etc, but the point is that with aly being scored realistically gabby without 2 falls would still not beat her.
She was supposed to have the amanar ready to not only contribute to the team but also to ensure her place as an AA truly behind simone and that didn’t happen. If she would have the amanar, then there is really no question of her besting laurie and aly. But without the amanar and/or that bar upgrade, she is going to consistently be in 4th unless she’s counting on laurie and aly to make mistakes.
Because of how the puzzle pieces fall in place, I think gabby is almost certainly doing ub in qual as well as AA. But unless Aly or Laurie makes mistakes I just don’t see gabby getting past them..
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As a 33 year old professional ballet dancer, who happens to be black, Im waaay too old and experienced in these realities called life to pretend that Gabby’s back hasn’t been up against the wall since the 2012 scam cup.
She ‘swooped’ in, seemingly out of nowhere after being AA irrelevant in 2011, and ‘stole’ the title that MANY gym fans had decided belonged to Jordyn or Komova.
If Simone wasn’t literally ‘other worldly’ and was a great 3 event gymnast only, there would be soo many ppl chipping away at why she ‘shouldn’t’ make the team. Just look around at all of the gym blogs where race has been repeatedly, disgustingly used to insult the reigning Olympic AA champion. They tried it with Simone back in 2013/early 14, and then got it together.
Im also too experienced in being ‘one of the few’ to NOT know that it’s not about race for most ppl. But, what I DO know, is that Gabby’s reception as 2012 Olympic AA champion would not be REMOTELY as lackluster if she was blonde and blue from Wisconsin. Ppl are literally online arguing that a girl who does one event very well, and doesn’t even train half of them, should have been named to the team.
If everyone wants to call USAG a sham, then let’s call the gymternet citizens of said USA a sham, for wanting to sit back, and act as if the number of convos that have been closed down to comments due to vitriolic racial epithets, have no reflection on, at minimum, a portion of the conversation at hand.
If it took you until 2016 to learn that the ‘trials’ haven’t mattered since 1996…
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My concern is actually more about the trend between classics and trials. It just seems to me like it’s a downward trend for gabby whether as most gymnasts on the team show upward trend. Maybe and we all hope that she does snapped out of that trend at camp..
As I said, I know a lot of times what we and even what Marta wants and expects doesn’t always happen. And that goes for gabby and an amanar. I think that was one of marta main expectation was that she has that ready for trial. That amanar would contribute a lot to the team as well as raising gabby status as a AA. Seeing how the amanar now won’t happen, gabby doesn’t have much wiggle room at all going up again Aly and Laurie. Even if you add 2 pt back to gabby trial total, she still would be behind Laurie and Aly.. And that tells you how much behind she is.
I actually believe that most gym fans on here are colorblind. Most on here are very merit based. I don’t remember seeing any comments here saying gabby got special treatment b/c she was of color. People was upset b/c it seems like she got chosen b/c of her endorsements, etc and that she wasn’t in top shape relative to others. If this was a Caucasian gymnast or Asian gymnast, the reaction would be the same that if a gymnast doesn’t prove that she’s at top shape then she shouldn’t be selected…
Maybe I missed the comments from 2011 and 2012 but I don’t remember seeing much comment regarding gabby race and her winning over Jordyn, komova, I thought it was actually a great upset of the establishment that she beat Jordyn and komova.
As for your reference to Ashton locklear, most people on here actually thought that marta saying that the final decision between gabby and locklear (including Lauren) doesn’t make sense at all. And it was obvious to the media that marta couldn’t completely justify that comment ” gabby is on the team for bars”. B/c gabby isn’t on the team just for bars…. And that’s the reason why she still made it.
My main point is that I am sensing a lot of your comments you sound like you’re thinking that race has a lot of why gabby is put down by people or why people doesn’t like gabby right now. But the reason why a lot of people including me concerned is that right now gabby have not in public proven her case (merit wise) as US 2nd or 3rd top AA. And all we can really hope for is that she did prove it at camp….
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A thought on racism. It’s not always (maybe hardly ever) conscious or deliberate. It’s not like someone thinks to themselves: “Gabby seems like a dedicated, hardworking young woman, but she’s African American, and I have a problem with African Americans getting attention in a sport that they haven’t historically excelled in, so I’m going to obsessively criticise and belittle her online”. It’s that the actual perceptions we have of people are skewed and therefore when we obsessively criticise and belittle, we feel like the person deserves it. That’s the whole thing about bias: we don’t realise we’re biased. But it’s just fact that our reactions to people are influenced by race. There are plenty of experiments that show this. None of us is immune to it. So to me, it would be really surprising if that wasn’t a factor in some of the responses I see Gabby getting online.
None of which means that she is one of the top three AAers on the US team. She hasn’t demonstrated that she is, so if she’s given the chance to try for the AA final, of course people will question that decision. And fair enough. But I think it’s naive to think that she’s not attracting a disproportionate degree of vitriol because of it.
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Yes, exactly!
Also, no one is saying that racism is behind every single anti-Gabby comment! People don’t need to get so defensive about it. If you can reflect on your own opinion and be confident it’s not motivated by race, great! But this shouldn’t stop you from realizing other people have different motivations and racial bias may be one of them.
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Bless you.
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😉
But no, bless you for this wonderful blog.
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I agree with you 100%
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You just hit the nail on the head. Perfectly stated and I 100% agree with you. And unfortunately (as one of the replies here demonstrates) many people are not capable of comprehending this or accepting it as a possibility. I’ve been so disheartened by all of this gymternet rage recently. Like… Seriously stop for a minute, and engage in some self reflection, people.
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,,, (it’s not my question) ,,. ,,. But, it’s a very good article,,,, full size details ,, neet and right,, very good example zxc good explanation,,, Lauren Hopkins. Thank u,,c u bye.
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Questiontime…
I’m relatively new to watching gymnastics and I’ve never been a gymnast myself, so maybe it’s a stupid question, but here it goes: I’ve heard and read a lot of people commenting on the problem of endurance, especially for a floor routine, but also for beam. For example: a gymnasts hasn’t done a certain dismount at the end of her routine in PT, only by itself and that’s seems to make a BIG difference. On the other hand, these girls train six hours a day, everyday… I’m certain they don’t do conditioning for six hours straight, but still, shouldn’t 6 hour workouts make a dismount at the end of a 90 second beam routine be kind of normal?
Thanks & love your blog!
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I’m so glad to find this blog as I’m admittedly a bandwagon gymnastics fan who only pays close attention to World Championships and Olympics, so I love hearing your insight.
Maybe this is a dumb question, but you think that Marta’s decision to allow Aly and Gabby to both attempt to qualify for AA over Laurie is based solely on how training has been going since Trials? When I first saw the decision, I figured that it was partially based on the last Olympics: Gabby being the defending champ, and Aly having that heartbreaking tiebreak situation, and Marta wanted to give them each the chance to defend/redeem what happened. But your post doesn’t even address that. Is Marta just not the kind of person to factor that into her decision?
Just curious!
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